Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. . Even some of the imagery in his scenes screams Gandalf. )https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCScfG2CfbSh_LUzkGJ_p-aAHistory of Dragon Ball - (For all things Dragon Ball! Doom. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. :)#LordoftheRingsWhatIf #Saruman #WhatIfSaruman I never really understood how they fit into the picture - I presume the nine gave to their bearers some ability, but ultimately corrupted them and turned them into the nazgul, which I guess was their purpose. Too well studied, as it turned out, for Saruman gradually turned to evil himself, emulating Sauron's works. Frodo would have continued into Mordor and odds are he would have been discovered there. The Lord of the Rings (LOTR) by J. R. R. Tolkien is one of the greatest and most famous epic fantasy series in English literature. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". If Saruman's Uruks had been successful and he had taken possession of the One Ring, how would have things turned out differently in Middle-earth? He had also extensively started studying the lore required to make his own ring of power. The Lord of the Rings. However, Saruman had planned his rise to power much earlier than that. It's a good question. Courage to ones fellows, hope in adversity, and comfort to the suffering were the powers enhanced by the three. They'd be capable of wielding it and would be a threat to Sauron, though Sauron would probably win in the end as The Ring was only . Yet, he had something that needed to be done first. Saruman was most skilled in Ring Lore, save Sauron. He sees the Dark Lord as a rival and also an aspiration. Two Maiar duking it out at their full strength would have brought ruin to much of Middle-earth, and that was exactly what the Valar had hoped to avoid in the first place. Why didn't they bring the Ring to Valinor? Well Gandalf and Galadriel were pretty confident in their ability to defeat Sauron using One Ring! Either way, Saruman through torture or his Voice would have quickly learned everything about the Quest of the Ring. Chief among the powers of the ring that were feared by the White Council was the fact that if Sauron put it on now, all that had been done by the Wise using the three rings would be revealed to him, as would their minds, if they did not take off the rings. These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. I'm a little vague on this point. Tolkien. Rohan would've fallen to Saruman and wouldn't have been able to come to the aid of Gondor and helped make the final stand against the forces of Mordor at the Black Gate. mostly minifigs and decorated bricks. Sauron once again lay dormant for over a millennium in the Second Age, secretly preparing another attempt to take over Middle-earth. Yet, it's also possible that Sauron would have triumphed and regained the Ring for himself. A capable bearer would have all that power, plus whatever native power he or she had to begin with. The three, which Celebrimbor made, were not made to gain dominion over others. RELATED: Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil. The first thing you need to realize is just how long a gap there was between the two trilogies. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Then Sauron would have had the ring again and either he'd keep Saruman as a servant or just get rid of him for trying to be his equal. In the book it is sort of implied that certain beings with sufficient power (e.g. He aided Frodo but he did not save him or the Quest from certain ruin as Eomer did by attacking the orc band. Rings of Power (and a touch of Wheel of Time), Ignore/Block Essentials, Paid Registrations by. In this scenario, Sauron likely would have recovered his Ring and covered all the lands in a second darkness. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. JavaScript is disabled. Director Peter Jackson adapted the books into six films divided into two trilogies The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.More popularly referred to as The Lord of the Rings movies, watching them in chronological order helps viewers place certain disparate events . And if the hearts of men were not so easily tainted, the Ringwraiths might never have been brought into being. It may have taken a while to learn to use the Ring to its full potential, and Sauron would surely have put everything he had behind trying to get it back, but itd be iffy, and he certainly couldnt use the Nazgul or other ring-empowered creatures against the weilder of the One. It would be a delicate balance. In fact, he had started searching for the One Ring (and found Isildur's remains) well before the events of The Hobbit. Since both are immortal, Saruman is going to be tortured for a long, long, long, long, LONG time. There would have been one less Peter Jackson movie. He would simply wait and let the Ring do what it was made to do. That makes Gandalf more or less like we know him from The Lord of the Rings, thousands of years in the future. Since Sauruman was once justly revered as among the great, by such as Elrond, and even Gandalf, it seems that he might well have been able to use the ring against Sauron successfully. A couple of points to add to the excellent arguments thus far: This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. its forging) to end (the . What would have happened if Saruman had gotten his hands on the One Ring? So it's possible that someone of sufficient power could break the Rings bond to Sauron. Eomer had no clue about rings and quests. Does he use his great voice, enhanced by the One to subjugate the free peoples. It's much more likely that Saruman would have used the One Ring for himself and tried to claim Middle-earth as his own. Since the One Ring is a part of Sauron it could only ever reach its full power under Sauron's control. How could Sauron defeat Saruman, or even pay him a visit if he's disembodied? We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. Narsil was made by the dwarves not elves. Well what DID the Ring do for Sauron? It seems it was a mistake for the Ring to leave Isildur. Knowing where he ends up would make the Strangers current journey all the more fascinating. I would have thought that they would have been used against Sauron if at all possible while he didnt have the one. (OK, just a Numenorean with the largest army and navy in all of history.) He reasoned that his total control of Middle . It has been suggested that the reason why Saruman lost access to magic after the . What if the Stranger is Saruman? Saruman used the seeing stones(palintir) to keep up with Sauron, as did Boromirs Father (name slips me now), Sarumaon would be no more than a snivinling fool of Sauron. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. When Gandalf meets Saruman in Orthanc, he notices that Saruman is wearing a ring. And in The Rings of Power, when the . In any event, a confrontation between Saruman and Sauron seems as though it would not be a closely fought as the one between Gandalf and Sauron described above; Gandalf was able to cast-out Saruman, so it seems as though Sauron would have more easily had the upper-hand in such a contest. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Narsil was no ordinary sword, and the Numenoreans weren't ordinary men either. Not unless Saruman got the ring. The Rings of Power finale took viewers on a ride with solved mysteries, reunions, and goodbyes. This just had to be the best designed set, even better than the 2017 UCS Millennium Falcon! They were basically the teachers pet ones who lived closest to the Valar and did not trouble themselves (except once) with the problems of Middle-Earth. Sauron was not a run of the mill foe and an ordinary blade wielded by an ordinary man would not have sufficed. For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the . But the Ring and all its works would have endured. Ultimately, we dont know who the Stranger is, aside from being an Istar, or a wizard. As Sauron once was, Saruman, a Maia of Aule, became absorbed in Ring-lore as he studied Sauron's evil works. I got down on bended knee at the top of the mountain and proposed. Would Sauron be able to open two fronts, battling against Isengard and Gondor? The eagles cant carry the Fellowship to Mordor because Gandalf cant simply summon a squadron of birds to divebomb Mount Doom. Why does Gandalf seek counsel from Saruman about the One Ring after leaving Frodo in the Shire? Naruto turned, and saw a Wizard in all white and an Elven Lady behind him. What would happen if Gandalf had the ring? But Saruman was always too prideful for his companions. Did she think she could have avoided being drawn to Sauron if she did seize the Ring? Tolkien says in Letter 246 that the Ring is not only comparable to "a devastating weapon" (which Frodo doesn't know how to use) but also to "an object of terror in their religious cult, by which they had been conditioned to treat one who wielded it with servility". But why do I think the Stranger is Saruman? Either way, the battle between them would have been a catastrophic lose-lose situation for everyone. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Does it shoot bolts of kickarse out of it's hilt? Gandalf & Galadriel admitted they would eventually fall to evil will of Sauron through the One Ring. Saruman was corrupted already so was a good candidate for the One Ring, through him it could exert Sauron's will to enslave all Middle-earth. Privacy Policy. *shrugs*. Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. Saruman joined Sauron only partially. Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. We'll probably never know. Is Gandalf the Gray's power actually limited or did he merely promise to not use it? He wanted the One Ring. Whats the threshold of power for a wielder of the one ring to defeat Sauron? We look at sections of The Lord of the Rings and Tolkien's letters to answer the question - what would happen if Sauron reclaimed The One Ring? In the books it is mentioned several times that Sauron fears one of the uber good guys getting hold of the Ring. The thing is, that wouldn't be a simple task. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. On the other hand, Sauron was not invincible either. Saruman arrived in Middle-earth midway through the Third Age, along with Gandalf and Radagast. It only takes a minute to sign up. The three created majesty of a different sort, and magnified the loyalty of those who already were loyal, rather than coercing by fear. Is the man a thousand times stronger than a normal man? Gandalf had the last one, though Im not sure anyone but Cirdan, Himself, and Elrond and Galadriel knew it. Although he never appears directly in the books and is only shown in the movies in a flashback to the War of the Last Alliance, his corruptive influence is felt nearly everywhere in Middle-Earth. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. All credit must go to the talented artists. Blake Hawkins has written TV and movie features and recaps for CBR since March of 2021. I dont find it terribly exciting that Gandalf arrived in Middle-earth and was good from the beginning (with Noris help). Indeed, Saruman needed no ring to become enslaved. If Saruman had taken and claimed the Ring for his own, Sauron would have been aware of it immediately. There's this passage that describes what happened after the death of his physical body: To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. Would the One Ring even work for anyone but Sauron? If Im not mistaken, he is Vanyar? Sauron was much the stronger, but a lot of his power is in the ring. On February 26, 3019 Eomer, Third Marshal of the Riddermark, set out against orders from his king to hunt an orc band coming from the east. Thus, the power of the Ring is both direct (like the power of a weapon) and symbolic (like the power of a cult object). Either way, the good guys loose big. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. Remember, the greater part of Saurons strength was poured into the ring. Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. cbr.com - Blake Hawkins 14h. JavaScript is disabled. The Palantri. I think Saruman would have kept the Ring and used its real and symbolic powers to contest with Sauron for control over Middle-earth by building up his own empire. The images have been re-edited so I hope you enjoy! By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. That was a lucky hitand did you perhaps notice that Sauron was more or less single-handedly beating the entire Last Alliance army at that point? It may not display this or other websites correctly. Lucky hit or not, he was vulnerable to a mere sword with no great magical ability or anything displayed that showed the ring as some huge magnifier of magical ability. Saruman with the Ring would presumably have tried to do what Tolkien says Galadriel or Gandalf might have done, if they have succumbed to the temptation of accepting the Ring: "they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force." Thus, while Gandalf taking the One Ring would have expediated the destruction of Sauron, it also would have hasted the subjugation of Middle-earth. He wanted the One Ring. But if Eomer hadn't disobeyed orders? What are the benefits of digital signatures? Do you want to be the first who gets the news directly to your mailbox? He also used his Palantir to spy on Sauron. His own greed and lust for power turned him to darkness on his own, and Sauron through the Palantir had already turned Saruman into his tool - though Saruman was of no use to Sauron at all once defeated. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Around 500 years before The Lord of the Rings, the White Council was formed in Rivendell -- a group for Middle-earth's most powerful beings to discuss Sauron.Galadriel wanted Gandalf to take the head position, but Saruman insisted that he be in charge because of his status. It would have been the master in the end. Which routine is best for gaining muscle? Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. That Saruman is nothing like the Stranger who falls from the sky in The Rings of Power. 3 Why didnt Gandalf use the giant eagles? Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Plus, if the Stranger is Saruman, it also makes Gandalfs journey and decisions all the more important and emphasizes an ongoing theme in Tolkiens works: every being has the power to choose between good and evil, or selflessness vs. selfishness. In The Lord of the Rings, the palantri corrupt nearly all who use them. This perfectly explained how the Ring could have gotten from Sauron to Isildur to Gollum to . Gandalf, however, likely took Saruman's position, not knowing that Saruman had invented the story of it washing out to sea and was looking for the One Ring for himself. Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? Sauron was the master ring-maker in LOTR, but Saruman also forged a ring of power so that he could eventually challenge the Dark Lord. No one could even comprehend the length of His existence. In the case of Sauron it increased his ability to deceive people, entice people to his will, made him stronger and faster then he had been, wiser in the use of his raw poweress, "and he could see and govern the very thoughts of those that wore the lesser Rings of Power." Luckily, Gandalf refused, and the rest of the trilogy didn't play out in Saruman's favor. He did not fear Sauron, but rather was forbidden to contest with him directly. When given the opportunity It would betray Its wearer, and find Its way back to Its Master. You would have a situation where Saruman knows exactly where the Ringbearer is headed and Sauron knowing Saruman is suspiciously concentrated on the area from Parth Galen to the Black Gate. The content on this site is for entertainment and educational purposes only. He also had control of the nine kings and such or was supposed to, although didn't Elrond get a ring yet was present at the battle? Letter 246 describes a hypothetical confrontation between a hypothetical Ring-bearing Gandalf and Sauron: Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. No doubt he would have exercised all his powers searching the area from Parth Galen where the Ringbearer departed to the Black Gate. rev2023.3.3.43278. What is the significance of Saruman's Ring? Sauron would then have suspended his campaign against Minas Tirith, and instead sent his armies north-west, through Rohan towards Isengard. Elbereth Vala Varda said: Saruman fell to darkness regardless. It didn't have to shoot out lighting bolts to be an uber blade. You are using an out of date browser. Keep in mind the Ring doesn't only have Sauron's power in it. After that, in the Undying Lands, Sauron was more powerful. If he succeeded in doing that, Sauron would have been defeated because it was his saving anchor. But maybe thats a reason why hes Saruman and not Gandalf. Without Gandalf, King Theoden would likely remain under the control of Saruman. The Silmarillion says Saruman was the eldest Istari and came first. All betting content is intended for an . If he could obtain or recreate the One Ring for himself, he would be able to rule Middle-earth just like Sauron did. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Ap. Tolkien edited by Christopher Tolkien. That he will never do now." Saruman with the Ring would presumably have tried to do what Tolkien says Galadriel or Gandalf might have done, if they have succumbed to the temptation of accepting the Ring: The Rise Of LOTR's Witch-king Of Angmar. Saruman had an opportunity to take a Ring of Power, but didn't. Was the ring more risk than it was worth? Imagine that, after breaking of Fellowship, Saruman`s Uruk-Hai capture Frodo and bring him, with the ring, to Isengard. What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that effects all events afterwards! To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. But it will still never truly be his & he will have to continually fight to dominate it as the One Ring wants to return to its master, who cannot be banished until the Ring is destroyed. At the same time, most of the Elves were leaving Middle-earth, and Saruman betrayed everyone and joined Sauron. First its a lucky hit, now its a super-human with a magical super-sword? I mean, he was supposed to be powerful ANYWAY was he not? Sauron was stronger than Gandalf the Grey, but . So it is my assumption that Saruman wanted the One Ring so he could forge his own Ring of Power. Is Taco Bell healthier than other fast food? Nori even said in the finale that the Stranger was there to help. Please message us if we have not credited you! If he didn't get the Truth from Saruman, he could get it from the halflings and if they were dead due to Saruman, capture and question any of Saruman's orcs or men roaming between Isengard and the Black Gate. What exactly happened to Sauron when the Ring was destroyed? A Saruman prequel, an Aragorn spin-off and a Gandalf v the Necromancer thriller could all lead up to the fateful hunt of Gollum and the events immediately preceding the Lord of the Rings (with . His Spirit would continue in some astral realm, and would use His real weapon: TIME. Already Saruman had a lust for power and even desired the One Ring for himself. Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron with the power of the One Ring? After that there is no other mention of Aragorn and the Ring together. The implication is that Saruman has to defeat Sauron. The one ring would have made him more like what he was before he left on his mission to middle-earth, only corrupted and evil. Loyalty is an important theme in Tolkien's world and obedience to authority is paramount in a medieval setting as in Middle-Earth. Obviously, the Uruk-hai didn't make it back to Isengard, and they didn't have the Ring anyway. Hes of the same order of beings as Sauron, so he certainly has enough power to effectively use the ring. He would have been able to control more people, and he would have had a much easier time dominating their wills. But he didn't because Eomer disobeyed his king and destroyed an orc band that had the most crucial thing needed by both Saruman and Sauron - information. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Tolkein himself said that it would have been a difficult battle, and might have gone either way, but that One of the true great powers could have dedfeated Sauron by using the Ring. If the Uruk Army sent by Saruman had captured Frodo and had gotten the One Ring to Saruman, what would Saruman have done with it? Here's a new theory concerning Saruman and Grima. The Ring still wants to be with its true master. As such, Saruman wouldn't have been able to use the Ring against Sauron, per se. By the time of The Lord of the Rings, Saruman has become jealous of Saurons power (and Gandalfs too). Instead of sending armies out to take Minas Tirith, Sauron would have had the majority of his forces concentrated on his borders and sweeping the land in front of it with orcs, men, trolls, and Nazgul. Gandalf feared the power the ring would give him. He sees the Dark Lord as a rival and also an aspiration. Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for science fiction and fantasy enthusiasts. The Lord of the Rings doesnt have plot holes. And in The Rings of Power, when the mystics realized their error, they said the Stranger is the Istarnot one of the Istari, the Istar, as if only one is present in Middle-earth right now. Saruman is ruined when the Riders of Rohan defeat his army and Merry and Pippin prompt the Ents to destroy Isengard. Sauron would also realize the captured Halflings did not have the Ring so all the doubt surrounding Aragorn having it would be absent. And they are similar to, if slightly less powerful than, the Maiar? As with Gandalf or Galadriel, the Ring would comply with the good intent of their first efforts. With possession of the one ring he would have replaced Sauron (would have wiped him out entirely). It was his own and under his will. Imagine that, after breaking of Fellowship, Saruman`s Uruk-Hai capture Frodo and bring him, with the ring, to Isengard. He concealed his identity and ran away whenever he was confronted. Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? LEGO did such a great job with the printing on the figures! The first and most obvious reason Galadriel gets to hang on to her Ring - Nenya, the Ring of Water - from beginning (i.e. They got the identity wrong, but the Stranger felt the direction about Rhn to be accurate. Even still, Frodo set the benchmark for hope and volunteered to take the One Ring to Mordor, where he destroyed it and saved the world from disaster. While Frodo and his companions know that Sauron is an embodiment of . We know that one of the elven rings was gifted to Gandalf. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. My understanding of the crushingly unavoidable fate which is the history of Middle Earth says that the One Ring belongs to Sauron and no other. In Unfinished Tales, J.R.R. Even if Theoden triumphed at Helm's Deep in this scenario, Saruman would be relatively safe in Isengard and Aragorn would not be able to look into the Palantir which is what led Sauron to focus his attention in Aragorn's direction and not around his own borders. Why Did Eru Give Men The Gift Of Death And Not to The Elves too? He and Nori leave for the land in the east at the end of The Rings of Power season one finale. Sauron may not learn the true goal of the Ringbearer but he would know that the ringbearer was most likely near or nearing his borders. Saruman is one of few "grey" characters in the books, meaning he's neither gone fully evil or good. #2. Saruman is my favorite figure of all time . What about orcs, or trolls wielding the rings taken from the dwarves? What money is available for senior citizens? Saruman's power is that of influence, both in a political sense of his influence as the highest member of the council, but also in the sense of being able to have some control over other people . 2023 Minute Media - All Rights Reserved. Saruman summon the storm on Caradhras in the PJverse in The Fellowship of the Ring. He wanted to inform Saruman the White -- who was head of the White Council -- that he had found Sauron's One Ring hidden away in the Shire.